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September 25, 2007

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Ros

Thanks for the update!

I had no doubt about Quixtar and IBOAI nor their commitments to working together for all IBOs.

Thanks for working hard for all of us, we support you and your leadership.

Sincerely,

Ros

Tex

Is there anyone left on the Board?

I already wrote a letter to Quixtar asking for my annual $9 back, as well as all past years, and requested future year payment be withheld unless I direct otherwise. There should also be an automated way to withhold these payments, instead of having to provide something in writing.

My reason? the IBOAI Board is inept, in my opinion.

[Moderator: Tex, we respect your right to an opinion. That said, the vacancies in the Board will shortly be filled and the full Board will proceed to carry out its mission. Sounds as if you don't want the IBOAI to be your voice, which is your right, but if we weren't here, then you wouldn't have this blog on which to express your opinion, would you? NO BOARD can represent 100% of its constituents 100% of the time. With hundreds of thousands of IBOs, there are going to be differences of opinion. ]

Utah

Post was different font. Not the same as Jonathan Bernstein?

I am glad for the renewal of the agreement. I really hope both sides have learned something. Quixtar / Amway will fail 100% without the board. I know the board realizes that, I hope the Corporation now does. That being said, how about a repeat of 1999? Renewal for Quixtar not change from June 2007 or Quixtar to become Amway with the rules since June. If the corporation can really create the positive press inside and outside the IBOs, they might see everyone move over.

If not, the IBOs win and Quixtar stays.

While you are changing things, get rid of the anti-stacking rule form July. You already now have sponsor and new IBO both signing. It was that way 16 years ago. The anti-stacking rule is designed to punish the innocent. IBO/Sponsor is enough.

Put the default of Simply Nutrilite to be referred by IBO. Explain what the Key is.

Based on England, I expect the prices to be adjusted. Quixtar already did this with Daily.

No decision from the Judge. Not to late to end this fight.

rdknyvr

Brilliant stuff!!! What a great time to be associated with Quixtar and with a strong, forward-looking IBOAI!!! Keep up the great work!!!

Chris

I don't know what good the contract does? it appears to me that the IBOAI is just a Lame Duck, or a figure head. If the IBOAI really had a say, I would think they would have made sure things were done differently, for example the Quixtar/Amway name change, but more importantly the release of the Joint statement, That statement was highly unprofessional released for Quixtar and really was the start of a huge mess, not only was it released from Quixtar it is posted on the IBOAI website. The IBOAI says they protect the IBO's, really, my business was doing just fine before the release of that statement, I am not part of the team and yet my business has went down hill, Please tell me how the IBOAI protected my business.

chris

Moderator-What percentage of the IBO's would you say that you do represent...It sounds like a far cry if the very existance of the board rest on the abilities of the IBO's to post blogs on this site, Tell me there is more to it than that, Tell me that the board actually does represent the IBO's when it came to the name change back to AMWAY.

[Moderator: At the risk of being very redundant, we'll say again that the return to the Amway name for the entire business, globally, was a decision made by the families that own Alticor. They are well aware, and have stated publicly, that they know many IBOs at all levels of the business object to that decision. However, a number of critics have falsely assumed that just because the Board was not a part of that particular decision that it isn't a part of any decisions, which is ridiculous.]

Ros

Hi Tex,

If I may suggest. If you have a grievance with the IBOAI board, Quixtar, Amway or another IBO, would you please state it plainly and specifically?

Don’t be condescending or general as you did in your last comments.

I for one find it difficult to understand such generalities, and it makes impossible to know what you disagree with and address the issue.

Allow me to share a humorous example. (Note, although this has actually happened, it is NOT directed at you Tex nor anyone else, it’s just a humorous illustration of what can happen if there is a misunderstanding without clarification. See, I clarified even before I told the story.)

Sales rep “Welcome. How may I help you?”

Customer “I want to return this laptop, it doesn’t work.”

Sales rep “What seems to be the matter with it?”

Customer “It won’t do what I want it to do.”

Sales rep “I see, well is there anything specific that it won’t do?” (Feeling confident he’d get a specific answer this time).

Customer “Ya, after I turn it on it just won’t work!”

Sales rep (Sighs…) “Well, let me see what I can do.” (Open’s laptop. Turns on laptop. Waits for Windows VISTA to start).

Sales rep (After VISTA has started). “Ok, why don’t you show me what it won’t do for you and I’ll see if I can help.”

Customer (Moves cursor arrow to program icon and double-clicks to open. Program window opens to sign-in page. Customer enters his ID, then with scowl on his face, looks at keyboard. A full minute goes by…). “SEE! That’s the problem!”

Sales rep “What’s the problem?”

Customer “It says to enter my ID and then press anykey to continue. It doesn’t work!”

Sales rep “So just press any key to continue”.

Customer “I CAN’T!!! I try and try but I can’t!!!”

Sales rep “Why not?”

Customer “Because it’s not there! I’ve stared at that keyboard for hours and I still can’t find the Anykey!!!”

Sales rep (Realizing the customer’s misunderstanding and obvious frustration) “Oh I see. Well let’s try this, why don’t you press that key right there that say’s “Return” on it and see what happens.”

Customer “Ok, but it’s still not going to work. I’ve tried that lots of times too.” (Presses the Return key. New window pops up, which reads “Invalid, try again”.

Customer (Now really red in the face) “See! See! It doesn’t work! And it’s calling me names again!!!”

Sales rep “What do you mean it’s calling you names? It’s just saying you mistyped your ID and you should try again.”

Customer “NO! NO! It’s saying I’m stupid! It keeps calling me an “invalid” !!!”

Ha! Ha! Ha! I hope you laughed. (Did you notice that the sales rep was always professional and never insulted him, but rather treated him with respect in spite of the fact that the customer clearly misunderstood?)

So Tex, please “try again”, and be specific as to your “concern”.

And one other suggestion. Assume the best, that everyone really is trying to do the right thing and that there is a reason for whatever you don’t agree with, and be open to hearing it. You just might be surprised to learn there is a logical reason why, even if you don’t agree with it.

I’m sure there are things you’ve said or done that others misunderstood or misconstrued, I know I certainly have.

Wishing you the best!!!

Ros

J

I like to ask a couple of,question to the moderator,of this particular blog. One, does that give us Independent Business Owner the full confidence between people that we elect that are in the Field of Doing and a Company that this particular agreement is going to be followed by the Letter, with both parties to make this buisness,a Highly favord B-Type Business. Oh and to futher add to that, one I read through the the posting and was wonderding, could you please set out in stone for me as to what the future is with QUIXTAR, and the Brand......

[Moderator: J, first of all, I don't understand much of what you're asking, could you clarify? Second, if anyone can set the future out in stone, I have some stock-related questions to ask them....]

Moderator: Tex, we respect your right to an opinion. ------------------------------------------------ Thanks, that is a right guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. Some of us put our butts on the line to "protect and defend" that document for all Americans "...against all enemies, foreign and domestic...so help me God" while in the military. For those of us who were commissioned officers, it is a life-long oath, unless the commission is resigned (which I have not done or intend to do, by the way). Nice of you to be in agreement, or else I would be required to consider you an enemy.

That said, the vacancies in the Board will shortly be filled and the full Board will proceed to carry out its mission. ------------------------------------------- I'm glad you will soon have "butts in seats", but I doubt the advertised mission of representing the IBO's will suddenly start to be carried out. But I am willing to be surprised.

Sounds as if you don't want the IBOAI to be your voice, which is your right, but if we weren't here, then you wouldn't have this blog on which to express your opinion, would you? ------------------------------------------------------- I don't mind them being my voice, or part of my voice, they just aren't going to be paid by me, because they're not doing their job. This blog routinely doesn't post my comments, you're only a small step away from the freetheibo blog when it comes to controlling the posts. Nothing to be proud of in that regard. I was happy with the Quixtar blogs that existed long before the IBOAI blog appeared, which was only after the TEAM fiasco, several months after the name change was announced, and several YEARS after blogs have been around, which would have been a good way to interact with the IBO's, if that was the interest of the IBOAI Board to begin with. If I were you, I wouldn't brag too much about this blog, it is not nearly as open as the corporate blogs and very late to the party.

NO BOARD can represent 100% of its constituents 100% of the time. With hundreds of thousands of IBOs, there are going to be differences of opinion. ----------------------------------------------------- I never expected or demanded 100% agreement, but it is reasonable to expect straight answers to simple and reasonable questions, which has not happened on this blog.

[Moderator -- Tex, even though you didn't sign on this post, it's obviously from you. First, I don't see what you military service has to do with the IBOAI, IBOs, Quixtar, or any of the other subjects we're discussing here. I'm a former Army NCO (we did the real work, y'know). I salute you for your service. You salute me for my service. Okfine. Now, you have been booted off at least one other blog for being disruptive, and that was TEAM's blog. Now you're pushing it over here. Your opinion has, repeatedly, been made CRYSTAL clear and we're not going to continue to post messages of yours where, de facto, you just keep repeating yourself. Suggestion: start your own blog. That's absolutely the best way to ensure that your posts, assuming they are not libelous, are ALWAYS published. And THAT is what America is all about, the right to do things your way -- in your house.]

Tex

Ros,

As I have stated before, my main issue with the IBOAI Board is it is made up of high level IBO's who are much more interested in preserving their MASSIVE tool profits than they are in representing the IBO's and the relatively small amount of Quixtar profit.

We are simply NOT in the same business as the IBOAI Board members, how can they possibly represent us? The tool profits (for them) and losses (for us) are the equivalent of "taxation without representation". Ever hear that term before? It was one of the main reasons for the Revolutionary War.

This produces a conflict of interest, especially when the tool profits are kept secret, as the TEAM court documents require. See this link - http://freetheibo.com/images/Quixtar_s_Opposition_to_Plaintiffs_Motion_for_Preliminary_Injunction.pdf, Exhibit A, which starts on page 47 of 56. In this document is a one year non-compete (Quixtar's is only 6 months, and TEAM was crying about that in their lawsuit), agreement not to disclose the level of tool profits to others (doesn't appear to be a Quixtar rule, as Ron Simmons and Chuck Goetschel have claimed), and the level of tool profits for various types of functions.

Clear enough? (assuming this gets posted) If not, ask more questions and I will clarify.

Moderator, it would be helpful to have an "anything goes" portion of this blog, where open and non-moderated communications are posted immediately. All you need is a simple disclaimer that the IBOAI Board does not take any position on the posts in this area of the blog, and some simple rules such as no cussing, etc. You could even require an IBO number sign-in, such that this portion is not visible to the public. If someone breaks the rules, ban them. The current over-control of the blog is hampering effective and efficient communications.

[Moderator: How about a "TexBlog.com" where anything goes?]

conan_78

About a month ago I found some past blogs that that challenged Tex about some contradictions. You would not post it ===========Quote “Hi Conan. Thanks for commenting on IBOAIblog. Let me begin by saying how much I appreciate your effort in putting your comment together and how much I respect your opinion. However, I can't post it in its current form.

First and foremost it looks like you're making a personal attack on Tex ("...Tex...You always talk about credibility. You should watch your own."), which breaks our guidelines. If all you did was ask him what his actual stance was on loosening the non-compete rule, I'd be fine with it.

Second, all your citations are to quotes from Ada-tudes (Opportunity Zone), an entirely different blog. You don't indicate if you're responding to something Tex said on IBOAIblog, although I suspect you were. I browsed through the section in which you placed your comment and I didn't see anything about it. So in that section, on our blog, your comment lacks context. It becomes an attack on Tex, and this isn't a blog about Tex.

I invite you to rewrite your post and restructure it in a way that turns it into a discussion on loosening the non-compete rule or clarifying Tex's actual stand on loosening the non-compete rule based on his past comments. I won't put words in your mouth, but if it were me I'd begin by referencing his past comments here, then his comments on Ada-tudes, then asking what he really thinks.

I hope that helps and I hope you'll continue to comment on IBOAIblog. Thanks!

Alan Eggleston IBOAIblog Moderator 2 ===============


You said !!!!! First and foremost it looks like you're making a personal attack on Tex
WHY did you post Posted by: Ros | September 26, 2007 at 01:35 PM. Is it because of what Tex posted earlier. What a double standard!!!!

[Moderator: You could be right.]

William

Thank you for the update.

I wish this information would be made more public. Many IBOs don't even know that the IBOAI exists. If a tree falls in the forest, does anyone hear it? I wish you would be more proactive in informing IBOs that you represent about important events like the situation in UK. Being evasive or hiding information is what gives our critics power to label us a "cult".

The start of this blog is a great resource for starters though, and I commend you on your willingness to engage in dialog. I hope it's a sign of things to come.

I look forward to a future-looking and new look IBOAI (elections are on right?)

Tex

The post was from me, I apparently neglected to sign in.

The reason you don't understand what I'm saying regarding protecting and defending the Constitution is because, as an NCO (and I agree, you did the real work) you didn't commit to a lifelong commission. That is a key difference between Commissioned and Non-Commissioned Officers/Enlisted personnel. That's why it is called an "enlistment", because when the enlistment expires, so does your oath. A Commission doesn't expire until I do, unless I resign my Commission.

I was booted off the TEAM blog, as have many others who are experienced bloggers and tried very hard not to get on their bad side, but were booted anyway. I didn't act up that much, but I also didn't know how their site was being run like a Gestapo propaganda machine by a PR firm.

I don't view blogs as a place to only chit-chat or let off steam. Blogs can also be used to educate and provide information for changes to occur. I "push it" because I care. When I stop "pushing it", you'll also know I no longer care.

If the necessary changes were being made, I wouldn't have to repeat myself.

Also, the nature of blog is such that repetition is necessary, as the older posts are not reviewed by the new readers. You and I may have seen the same thing over and over again, but the new person won't unless it is repeated.

I have been told by many others to post my own blog, which doesn't make any sense. Why would I go to my corner of the internet and not interact with the corp and the IBOAI Board, which theoretically can fix the problems? I have far more influence here than in "my own house."

[Moderator: Your key sentence here is, "If the necessary changes were being made, I wouldn't have to repeat myself. " That would be, the changes which YOU think are necessary. You have disdain for our Board members, yet I'd be willing to bet that you've never engaged in active communication with the Platinum-level "voting members" who elect the Board. You have chosen to complain AFTER the fact, instead of being part of the process. This is not constructive. If you have anything new to suggest, to include exactly how to make that idea happen, those suggestions are welcomed. Finally, neither your military service or mine have ANYTHING to do with this blog.]

Zorro

In 1959 the American Way Association was established and a Board was elected. Over the years the "voice" of the field was the Board. The Board has taken on all kinds of shapes and sizes. They indeed do represent the Field. This year there were nine Board members who never served in the past and another six who had served only one term previously. This was done in an attempt to expand the Board and elect new people. They serve and take time from their own businesses and families. We should applaud them and thank them. The many achievements of the Board goes unnoticed and yet when something does not appear to go your way you have a tendancy to criticize. While the Board is not perfect it is the recognized group with which the Corporation has a "Binding Contractual Agreement" with and the details of such is included in every Biz Reference Guide sent to every IBO when they register. Check it out on page D-11 or the page just prior to the Rules of Conduct. Zorro

pvbvguy

Tex,

I enjoy reading your stuff on the blogs and no one will ever be able to say you don't have opinions.

I know you are smart enough to realize there are still people on the IBOAI Board. The moderator has said that the board is going to replace the members who are gone. I don't believe the board has had a meeting since the blow-up with team, etc.

I have a hunch that the board may have had a tough year. It is obvious that there was some disagreement on the board as to how they viewed this business. I'm sure that the upcoming board will be able to work together in a more agreeable fashion this year. I think we all need to give the board some time. There is a 48 year history between the board and the company. I think that is worth preserving and believe our business is better and will get a lot better because of the IBOAI involvement in the process.

I don't believe that all the board members are there to try and protect their tool systems. I'm sure every board member knows that the life blood of this business is new people. I really don't believe that the board members want to ride rough shod over the new folks, fleece them for all their worth, spit them out and go recruit some more new Ibo's.

I have had a chance to talk to several of the people in my LOS that have served on the board and I certainly don't see that. I can't speak for all board members but if I am smart enough to see that an endless cycle of moving people through a system; while you are fleecing them; is zero sum game; then I believe any of the board members would be smart enough to see that too!

I'm also not saying that there hasn't been abuses in systems in the past. I've heard about them from some of the old-timers I've talked to in my LOS. In the relatively short time I have been involved and where I am in this business; I haven't seen it.

I also realize that I am free to participate in system support or not participate. I know the LOS I'm involved in gives great value for the small amount I pay. If someone doesn't think there is value in their system; don't participate.

I also know that the new bonuses have accreditation tied to them. If there are still abusers out there, accreditation should take care of it shouldn't it?

Finally in regard to you wanting your $9.00 refunded.... Don't you think it's worth $9.00/year to have some representation? I don't believe anyone on the board is perfect, but it certainly seems like I will get $9.00 worth of representation from them. I know that personally I spend a lot more money every year on dumb things that
cost a lot more than $9.00. (I just spent $20.00 today to park at a college football game. If I had walked 6-7 blocks, I could have parked for $5.00)

I'm not telling you how to spend your money but I really believe that the $9.00/year that Ibo's spend is one of the great values in business today. I understand you get frustrated and have many opinions about how this business should be run. I also believe your intelligent. I also believe that deep down you may believe that the representation you get is flawed. You may be right on all counts, but I think we're still getting a good value for what we are paying.

Maybe I'm NUTS. Let me know what your think; I'm sure you will.

PVBVGUY

P.S. Please don't stop blogging, I really do enjoy your insights and your posts and I know you are all for making this business work.

[Moderator: Well put, pvbvguy! For everyone's info, the next Board meeting is in mid-October. We are aware of current "hot topics" to most IBOs -- the business transformation, new products & pricing, accreditation, the new QBI -- and those are already going to be discussed at the Board meeting, but other recommendations for topics are always welcomed, although we can't guarantee all will be discussed in the finite time available, particularly since this is also the meeting where additional Board members and 2008 officers are elected. The IBOAI will also have a booth at all four sessions of Achievers and encourage all IBOs to visit the booth and share yourr thoughts, concerns and recommendations with us. ]

rdknyvr

Moderator, great post by pvbvguy. I know, at least on an acquaintance level, five people at significant pin levels in the 'system' to which I subscribe who have served on the IBOAI board at some point, and none of them are people who are "protecting" personal tool profits. In fact, all of them make far far more from their Quixtar/Amway businesses than from training system or speaking income.

FIRST Suggestion: I really liked your noting at the end of pvbvguy's post that the next board meeting is mid-October. While much of what they deal with is of necessity confidential, what about posting a couple weeks before each meeting to solicite feedback on some topic, trend or proposal that will be discussed, that's not highly sensitive, with the purpose of (1) seeking feedback and ideas from IBOs, and (2) helping to raise the IBOAI's profile and activity?

Less than one percent of IBOs are at the Platinum level or higher, which means 99%+ of IBOs who pay the $9.00 do not get much information on what the Board is doing on their behalf, even though so much of what the Board has put forward to, and has been accepted by Alticor, directly improves incentives, bonuses, products, and pricing for sub-platinum IBOs. I understand that the Platinium level and higher signifies a corresponding level of achievement and responsibility, but broadening your profile to the many below Platinum could help.

SECOND suggestion: when there are new changes to the rules that are passed by the IBOAI Board and approved by Alticor, instead of just leaving them to be posted somewhere on the Quixtar site, would you consider post them here too via a blog posting? I realize it's not a requirement, but it would serve to improve transparency and raise visibility. So if there are changes, for example, to the non-compete clause, or changes to sponsoring rules, could they be posted here, at least with a link and easy to follow reference to their location on the Quixtar site or the Business Compendium? For example, I understand from a reply from Customer Service that the Business Rules Compendium is in the process of being updated. When Quixtar posts the pdf of the updated document, could you post that info with a link? That info alone would be a great "service" and is worth every bit of $9.00 per year to me!!! :)

With much appreciation,

[Moderator: Your idea of cross-posting anything important that appears over at a Quixtar site is a good one, we'll try to do that as often as possible.]

Eric Vanlandingham

Hello everybody! Thanks IBOAI for supporting a blog site that is professional and gives IBO's the opportunity to communicate with the IBOAI and other IBO's as well. I'm excited to be a part of an opportunity that enables ordinary people achieve extraordinary results in thier lives. I live part-time in the Alaska bush without Quixtar/Amway I'd probably be another drunk/suicide statistic.

Quyana, Eric

Confused

Why did Alticor announce the name change to Amway without the IBOAI's approval?

[Moderator: The IBOAI does not have the authority to tell Alticor -- a private corporation -- what to do. In this case, additionally, IBOAI's Board didn't know about the plan to return to the Amway name until after the announcement had been made by Alticor, as discussed elsewhere on this blog.]

Utah

If the IBOAI doesn't represent Amway but represents Quixtar, and Quixtar is going to be gone in 2009, doesn't that mean that the board disappears? Or will just north America Amway have a board when the rest of the world doesn't? The obvious question is did Alticor decide to get rid of Quixtar so that the differences between them will no longer exist, including having a IBO/ABO board?

[Moderator: It sure sounds like you're trying to be deliberately misleading, is that true? Factually, although the Quixtar name will ultimately be phased out, the business organization in North America will not change and neither will the IBOAI's position representing IBOs in this part of the world. And here's some additional information about organizations representing
IBOs/ABOs in other countries. There are associations established in Australia and New Zealand. In all of the other countries the Corporation does have a "Council" of IBO's who are leaders in their respective countries to provide insights, input and all that jazz. We know of nothing that will change those arrangements either. What we're seeing is a global improvement in the business concurrent with a move to using the same brand worldwide -- nothing more, nothing less.]


Utah

No I am not trying to be deliberately misleading. Real Questions. Nice to get some answers. I asked the Amway blog, (very nicely) but no response. Ozone and Ada-tudes just don't post questions they don't like. They might email you back the answer, but you have to be a pain to get an public answer for something as simple as the new natural E product. Most of my questions there just aren't posted, they just disappear.

I put these questions on an older IBOAI blog, so as to get a response without trying to start something.

"The business organization in North America will not change" is totally news to me, as Q/A has not told the IBOs all what will happen in the future. Do I think the changes that are announced are all good - no. Do I know what they all will be between now and 2009, no.

We have been told that Quixtar and Amway are two different business models and that Quixtar is no longer going to exist in 2009. What are we supposed to think? I was in Amway as long as Quixtar.

Nice to know if there are other associations or "councils". Your previous answer said their wasn't as far as you knew, but ask Amway/Alticor, which I did and they posted the question but didn't answer. Clearly there isn't one really working in the UK, nor really the way it is supposed to be working in the US.

The current IBOAI agreement with Q/A is just for 2008. Pretty sad. There never would have been Amway without the board - and based on their letter to the UK, something Steve and Doug have forgotten long ago, in my Opinion.

I am seeing changes being made now, real ones announced by Q/A, that If I can known would happen 16 years ago, I wouldn't have signed up. The only thing holding me is 16 years of product loyalty. (oh and IBOCS) Not very strong rope. Q/A has ripped apart my LOS and left it in pieces. Yes I am ticked. No I have not quit. I still have over a month to renew...

*Going Crown*

Tex, what is your problem with the income made from the educational system apart from Quixtar? It's like having two sources of income from two different businesses! There is nothing wrong with that! So what if one makes more in the Quixtar business than in the educational system and vice versa?
I once heard a statement by a friend of mine (he is already having a small family business) in the Quixtar business who approached a guy and that guy asked him "oh really... why would have more than one business? why would want to have two sources of income?" What a dumb guy! Please, stop wasting your time and other people's time with these stupid arguments and better focus on your own life!

Cathy Cross

I truly hope with this transformation, that Amway Global will revise what IBO's are called as well.

A more accurate reflection of what we REALLY are would be "AUTHORIZED GLOBAL DISTRIBUTOR" (AGD)or Authorized Sales Representative (ASR).

Using IBO, or being one for that matter, means nothing. We are no more INDEPDENDANT than a common employee. We can't use their pictures, descriptions, they squelch and keep tight reigns on everything we try to do to build a successful BUSINESS.

In the world of BUSINESS, in all reality, Quixtar North America is simply a supplier or Vendor. And that's just the plain truth. For them to tell us we cannot market other products or conduct a "sideline business" while we are IBO's is simply too restrictive.

I would rather be called what we really are - DISTRIBUTORS or Sales Reps. It is very confusing when conducting B2B business to have my own company name then present a Quixtar 30 net financing application. It confuses the customer, especially when the payments have to be made out to Quixtar, rather than ME, the business owner. Particularly when attempting to get LARGE business volume (municipalities, Government entities, etc), the conflict of us as business owners YET everything is in Quixtar's name is quite mind boggling to a new customer.

They don't even drop ship under OUR business name as a courtesy.

So call us DISTRIBUTORS again. No shame in that. It IS what we REALLY are, and it is WAY less confusing to the customer.

Thanks for letting me bend your ear.

Cathy Cross
5127985

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